Alright. Everybody. We're thrilled to see you here on this, not so sunny Tuesday. Thanks ever so much for joining us. I'm thrilled to be able to introduce ReadySetRecruit that we'll be taking you through, a live engaging panel session today with our fabulous panelists. To get things started, I've got a couple of slides to, briefly kind of introduce you to the premise of what you should expect from today's session before we get into the dialogue, and we get cracking properly. Before we get started, couple of quick things. We will kinda treat this under Chatham House rules. So those questions you share as we go through the information that's shared, please do treat this as a safe space to share your experiences. Please do ask questions in the chat as we go through, and we do absolutely want to keep this engaging and exciting. So if you've got really juicy questions, please do pop them in the chat, and we'll come back to you as we go through, or bring those together at the end in a bit of a q and a session with the fabulous panel we have with us today. So what's this gonna look like? Firstly, I'll introduce you to the team. I'm gonna give you a very brief introduction to PageUp who are the the organization I represent and work for that are hosting today's session, and then absolutely, we're gonna take you through, the session today, which I'm really excited. It's gonna be a really engaging and and thrilling conversation. But to get things started, we thought we'd try and do this in a little bit of a a warm and engaging way. So let's firstly introduce our team, and I'm gonna ask each of our panelists to do four key things for me. So first things first, I'd love to hear who you are, if you could introduce your role and your, respective organizations, and then two fun facts. Firstly, what was your first job? And secondly, if you were to try and summarize what the last twelve months in talent acquisition has been like in the form of a song, what would that be? So, Paul, why don't we start with you? Thanks, Chris, and good morning, everybody. So I'm Paul Thornton. I'm the talent acquisition director at The Key Group. So The Key Group are a construction and infrastructure services company. And I am delighted to be here today. So firstly, thank you for for welcoming me along. So what was my first job? So the first job, whilst I did have a few little jobs, I classed my first real job as when I was at university. I was at Staffordshire University, and my third year was working in industry. And I was very lucky to work for mister Kiplings at the time. Hopefully, you will all recognize that as the the company that that provides lots of cakes. I worked in Newcastle under Lyme, and it was great experience. It was in the HR world, so it gave me a really good taste for HR. And during that time, I specifically really enjoyed the recruitment. And if anybody wants any boring facts about cakes, I can also share that with them as well. In terms of a song that kind of sums up, I think, the year in TA, I've gone for a song. I hear it a lot because I live in a household with my wife and my both of my daughters are very much into this artist. So they are very big on the scene at the moment. The song is shake it off by Taylor Swift. And the reason for that is because I think there are so many moving parts in the world at the moment, so many moving parts in TA. It can be quite challenging, and my view is we've just gotta shake it off, deal with it, get on with it, and and go through it. So I could probably give you every single lyric because I've heard that song so many times. So so, yeah, so that's my song. So thank you, Chris. Love it. Thanks, Paul. And I'm a big fan of Cherry Bakewell, so maybe you can give me some facts on that later. Awesome. So onwards to Sarah. Hello, everyone. Thank you for having me here today. As you said, I'm Sarah Maguire. I'm head of talent recruit and recruitment at Manchester Met University. So very much based up in Manchester, but we do a lot of hiring internationally as well. I my first job I again, my first real job, I would say, was a waitress in a local pub. It's a lovely country pub, I will say, and I love that job. I got paid every Friday in cash. Quite often, we get on the bus into town with mates after my shift. And the most exciting thing that happened was being promoted to be able to on the bar when I turned eighteen and learn how to pull a really good pint. So I can give anyone a lesson in that if you like. But that was kind of pre university, so I was there for about two and a half years while I was studying at college. And the song I chose, I think it's probably a similar sort of thread to the song you chose, Paul. And the reason I've chosen this is because I'm going to see this boy band on Friday, a bit of a blast back to the nineties with my best friend, and it's five. Keep on moving. Because, again, there are a lot of curveballs in recruitment, and every year, it seems to change, priorities change, and you've just gotta kind of be able to adapt and shift and keep going. So similar similar thread, Paul. Absolutely. Love it. And, if you have a perfect pint and a cherry bake well, then that sounds like a winning combination. You're doing well. Absolutely. And last but certainly not least, Laura. Hello. Thank you everyone for having me. Really excited to be here. So I'm Laura Robden. I'm the talent acquisition manager at Places People, which is one of the UK's largest social housing providers, but we are probably a bit more deep than that because we also have leisure centers and several of of smaller organizations as well. So my first job keeping it in terms of the food side was a sandwich maker while I was at uni at a bakery. And interesting fact, I was fired for giving too many fillings on the sandwiches because I was making sandwiches how I'd want to eat them. So if you ever want a really good sandwich, apparently, I'm the person to come to because I've got too much bacon, eggs, cheese, and stuff on. I was dismissed for basically cutting into their profits. My career after that has been a bit less turbulent. I haven't been fired from a job since, so she was. If I was to describe the song, I picked a bit bit of an older song. Well, I'll say it's older song. It's not. But Roller Coaster of Love by Red Hot Chili Peppers because it's very up and down, but also as well you've got to love it to be in it and have that sort of relationship with it. Ironically, it was also used in Final Destination, which sometimes talent acquisition and recruitment can feel a little bit like. So that would be my song that I would use to describe it. Fabulous. Well, I think if we combine sandwiches with cherry boat wells and a pint, that sounds like a fabulous evening. But, certainly, that's a great song choice too. So thank you. Welcome, everybody, and I hope that was, you know, inspiring and gave you a little bit to think about. Addressing the elephant in the room, unfortunately, Alan from the RSPCA can't join us today. But certainly, I'm sure he would love to tell you his story. So please do reach out and connect with him separately. I know he'd be very happy to talk to you. So last but not least, who am I? So my name's Chris. I work as the SVP for EMEA here at PageUp, and I've been working in and around talent acquisition technology for nearly twenty years for various different organizations, and I think it's really exciting time to be in this space. So following the same theme as everybody else because I thought it's only fair, my first job was as a lifeguard and I actually found my certification weirdly this morning. So, yeah, I can still give CPR, if it gets to, like, if it becomes very stressful on this call today. Equally, in terms of my song, maybe I'm showing my age here, I went for queen, and don't stop me now because I think its actual theme according to chat GPT at least is something around momentum and excitement around what's coming next. And I think that's a really thrilling summary of the world we're in right now. It's yes. There's been some turbulent times in talent acquisition, but I think we're on a sort of real tipping point now with innovation, technology, and lots of evolution in the world that's gonna really, make things very exciting in the time to come. So without further ado, let's give you a quick summary of who we are, from a PageUp perspective, and then we're gonna dive into the the conversation. So PageUp as an organization. We are a global talent acquisition suite provider. So what does that mean in simple terms? It means we work with incredible organizations. To give you a bit of a flavor, we've actually helped over a hundred million people connect to their roles and their opportunities in life, And we support over seven hundred organizations across the globe in doing so from right down in Australia through North America and across Europe. There's three hundred page uppers across the globe as it stands today, and actually work with over a hundred and sixty partners because what we're dedicated in trying to create is a really healthy ecosystem that allows people to drive the best possible outcomes for their people through our technology. The great news is as you can see with those badges from g two that I'd like to think that our customers love us too, and hopefully you'll hear a little bit more about that today. Now in terms of what we provide those organizations, it really sits in three very clear areas. We have incredible recruitment marketing technology, has everything to do with the attraction and engagement of both prospective candidates and equally those that might be returning, looking at your career site, or equally building funnels of opportunity for future roles. And that is a a separate entity or part of a wider talent suite. And then we have our global applicant tracking system, which will, of course, help people go all the way through from the application process right through to onboarding, making sure that people are as aligned and ready and prepared to do their best work as quickly as humanly possible when they start on day one. We support a wealth of organizations. We're blessed to be, supported here by Kia, Manchester Metropolitan University, and and places for people as you've heard. And we also work with organizations I'm sure you'll be familiar with from the likes of a BP or British Airways right through to to the likes of the brands you've seen on the slide here in front of you. Without further ado, I know what we're here to do is to have great conversation. So you'll be pleased to hear at this point I'm gonna come away from the slides and we're going to delve right into the chat. So let's stop sharing at this point and I can see everyone's lovely faces. But to get things started, we actually want to hear a little bit from everybody else. So actually, we're going to launch a quick poll, and this poll is going to ask you a very simple question. What has been your organization's biggest talent acquisition challenge in twenty twenty five? We would absolutely love to hear your feedback, and we'll actually come back and revisit these results as we go through. So please take a couple of seconds just to pop in your answers. This is absolutely mesmerizing seeing all these results come flooding in. Fantastic. Okay. Great. We will pause there. So I can see actually we have a a very substantial lead over in front of us here, which is with thirty five percent is skills shortage. And equally, we have high applicant volumes and quality at close second. That's a really powerful thing in itself actually because we're gonna come back and actually touch upon that as part of our conversation as we go through. And I'll invite the panel to, share some remarks on this, as we get to the end of the conversation today. So thank you ever so much for for taking part, and I will click there to share the results. Alright. Great. So without further ado, we're going to dive into the conversation. Now as we highlighted in the build up to today's session, we were going to really dip into a number of oh, hello. The polls appeared again. Let me, let me just close off that poll. Okay. So we're gonna, first of all, look back and reflect upon the experience we've had so far. So there's two things I'd love to hear from each of the panelists. The first question is actually, if you reflect upon the last eleven months that you've spent in your roles, the first question is what's been your biggest challenge as a talent acquisition leader over the last twelve months? And then secondly, what's equally your biggest win, that that kind of eureka moment, that greatest win that you've had? So, Laura, you're front and center of my screen, so why don't we come to you first? Of course. You want me to answer both questions together and then move on? Or do want me to answer Yeah. I think there's quite a nice flow there. Yeah. Why don't we do that? That'd be Okay. No worries. Yeah. So probably our biggest challenge over the last eleven months as an organization that last year recruited two thousand seven hundred roles in the organization. So massive amounts of volume across different roles, different sectors, different areas of the business is how do we manage that highly competitive market and balance candidate experience and business demands. So we get a lot of pressure in terms of from our business areas about we need to get these people in quickly. A lot of our roles are business critical, impact our customers. So, you know, if we don't get joiners or tradespeople in, that's homes being left, not being serviced, that's individuals. It's our reputation. So it's how do we kind of manage those types of volumes, but also in a very competitive market. As we've seen, there's there's skill shortages with trades, with individuals. So we've had to really shift our focus and look at how do we how do we sort of build our own talent. So we've introduced our own training academy this year where we are recruiting apprentices. We're also looking at how do we trade over housing sectors, their apprentices, their individuals into the business as well. So we've really had to shift away from traditional talent acquisition in some of our roles to really to really sort of elevate where we can get that talent from, how how we can upscale our colleagues. Our biggest strategic win has probably been our transformation of our talent acquisition team. So if I cast my mind back to sort of twelve, eighteen months ago, our team was very reactive. They were known as recruiters. They were doing what I would say post and pray mentality. So posting out an advert, praying it would land, hoping they'd get the attraction. We went on a twelve month real strategic journey with them. So we really looked at what skills they currently had, what skills do they need now, and took them on a pathway to excellence. So train them right from everything from what talent acquisition is, sourcing strategies, understanding workforce planning across an organization our size, and understanding what was coming down the pipeline. The next thing we did as a result of that was we noticed that our hiring manager capability was significantly needed work and actually to get that candidate experience really strong. So we launched what was called flight path two, which was all about intense hiring manager training as well. And what we've seen from that is we launched our candidate satisfaction survey this year, and we currently sit in terms of an effortless score that should be a maximum of five of four point nine of candidate satisfaction of how now candidates are viewing the application process and the interview process. So I would say our biggest strategic win is how will we take in our hiring managers and our a RTA team on a journey in terms of developing themselves to improve that candidate journey and to get the right talent in. Brilliant. Thank you. And it's just really interesting. We spent so much time talking about the skills of the people we are hiring, but do we ever actually pause and reflect on do we have the skills to hire the right people? So it's, that's a really interesting lens to look through. Thanks, Laura. I guess, Sarah, why don't I come to you with the the same two questions? Yep. So thinking about that poll that you just kind of posted, I would definitely agree. If I had to pick one of those, I'd probably go for the volume of applications and managing that in an efficient way where you're giving candidates an experience, where you're embedding automation, but at the same time, are quite challenged on our operating model, our own resource and budget and spend, and and how where do we sort of place that where do we place the importance to be able to get that right? So that has definitely been a challenge, and you just see the volumes going up and up and up every time an advert goes out. So that has been real sort of focus this year. We've also just gone live with an ERP program. I know everyone is gonna cringe now, said that. So that has been a huge challenge this year. It's a huge project. It's taken up a lot of time and resource from multiple teams, not just TA. We're still embedding that now and looking at our processes and looking at our engagement externally with the customer and thinking about how we make that the best it can be. So that's been a real focus for probably the last two years, if I'm completely honest. Biggest win, I'm gonna say EVP for this one because it's been a cross functional success between people in OD directorate, so employee engagement teams and talent marketing And recruitment TA to get back to a point where we have our EVP agreed, and we have socialized that internally through following sort of two years of real research across the organization, shaping and iterations of what that should be. And we're now starting to pilot that externally as well through recruitment channels. So that's been great to get back to a point where we're we can we can share and and, you know, use that to our advantage. So I'd say that would be a big win for us this year. Brilliant. Thanks, Sarah. And, interesting enough, while we were at, one of the big HR events only a week ago when we talked to the analysts who look at the market and the trends they're seeing, EVP and candidate experience was the second biggest single priority for uniformly across every analyst in terms of what they're hearing the market's looking for. So that really does, echo very closely with what they were saying. That feels very natural as a transition to you, Paul, in terms of some of the work that you've been doing. Yeah. Thanks very much. So biggest challenge, it probably feeds on a bit from from what Sarah was saying, really. So for me, it's around time and prioritization. If you look at the nature of recruitment and what we're doing, and we're we're all feeling this, I'm sure, we have tens of thousands of customers, you know, whether they're applicants, whether they're hiring managers, that we have to essentially offer a good service to. Everything that we do is time driven, you know, in in terms of responding to candidates, in terms of setting up interviews, in terms of making offers, whatever it is, it's all time driven. It's a really high pressurized environment. And one of the challenges I think we see today, there's so many new kind of flashy tools, things that we should be thinking about or doing. And I always go back to what are kind of the basics, what are the core things that we need to be prioritizing and spending our time on. So for me, that is things around we've already talked about it. Customer experience, employer brand, and EVP. The technology, how are we harnessing the technology that we're using? How do we make it become a a good enabler for us? Understanding data and insights because they're so, so important. But the most important thing is the TA team. How are we focusing in on our TA team? Making sure that they've got the tools that they need, making sure they've got the right capabilities, making sure that they're happy, they're having fun, they're enjoying what they're doing. So for me, it's just making sure that we're getting some of those basics right. And in terms of the biggest strategic win so if any of my team are listening to this, they're probably gonna start cringing now. But we have had a vintage year in many ways. I do call it a vintage year because we have had a last twelve months where we've won quite a few awards, which has been really, really good to see. So we won a candidate experience award at the Personnel Today Awards, which was great. We won use of best use of mobile at the OnRec Awards. And then at the IHR Awards, we run recruitment team as well. And I know from judging awards that it's not easy. There are some really good submissions, but what it kinda clarifies for me, and it isn't actually about the awards, it's it's recognizing that the work that we are doing is being noticed and is being seen. And when it's being benchmarked benchmarked with other companies, you know, we're we're we're coming out with a kind of a a really favorable outcome to it as well. So for me, that's been really positive. I know that a lot of what we're doing is the right stuff. We've just got to do more of it and get better at doing it. Brilliant. You, Paul. I think it's it's nice and reassuring to hear that everyone's wrestling with with similar challenges, and I think there's an abundance of technology solutions out there for sure. But I do love the fact that the recurring theme here is actually we gotta also have the right people with the right skills and feeling like they're supported to be able to actually do their best work. And, of course, the byproduct of that is that we get better candidates into better roles and so on and so forth. So we're gonna follow on now with a second poll question for those on the, on the call as it were. So the question is, what are your top three priorities for talent acquisition in twenty twenty six? Now this might be quite a natural flow on from some of what you've just heard, but hopefully that's also a little bit of food for thought for you too. Cool. This is a much more closely fought battle here. Look at that. Give it a couple of seconds. Thank you so much for your participation. This really makes a huge difference. And, yeah, these are really some some powerful things. And I think we can see already that quality of hire comes top there, which is a pretty reassuring metric given the the roles that we're all in here. And equally, following that theme of embedding AI and automation, I think that is a very, very clear, theme that we were hearing last week over at the the large event, but equally we're hearing from our customers too. But, yeah, I can see the candidate experience is also in the mix as well with forty seven percent. So that's actually that's truly fascinating and very much validates what we're seeing. So rest assured everyone, you're you're not alone in your quest to solve those three challenges. So we will share the results, and you can see those. We'll also share these afterwards, so don't worry if you, you're furiously writing these things down. We're very happy to discuss them more. And if you do have, remember, any questions, pop them in the chat. We can definitely come back to them at the end. So what's quite a nice natural flow from there is actually we're gonna now dig into the current state of talent acquisition. So reflecting upon where we are right now and really looking forward. So, actually, we're gonna come to you first, Sarah, if that's okay. And the question I have for you is when you look ahead to twenty twenty six, what are those top priorities, and also the biggest pressure points in your current talent acquisition process? So I mentioned before our ERP program and embedding sort of that new technology across multiple functions, which gives us or, you know, should give us much more efficient ways of working, much more visibility between, you know, procurement, finance, HR, you know, and just enable us to work in a way that we're really maximizing, you know, the investment in our technology. So I would say really focusing on getting that right and being able to then look at, you know, the talent acquisition function and thinking about where we are more efficient, where can we invest the service in terms of changing how we work, moving away from some administration that we might do now that we can we can change, thinking about all the opportunities for AI and automation and testing out some new ways of working. I'm really focusing on that wraparound operating model that really, you know, gets the best out of the investments that we've made. So that is definitely going to be both the pain point and the focus of twenty twenty six because it's all a balancing act, isn't it? Looking at your operating model and resource while you need kind of that resource to kind of get things working in a smooth and efficient way. And then thinking about, you know, how do we then take our service forward and, you know, articulate that the organization that we've moved on new world, new ways of working, and this is what you can expect from the service. So that is gonna be sort of our strategic repositioning, let's say, moving forward. Brilliant. Thank you. That's really clear. And I guess if if you reflect on maybe some of the successful hires or maybe even some of the unsuccessful hires, when you look at the feedback that's come from folks going through that process, have you seen much of an evolution or change in the expectations of those candidates? I'd say candidates are, we're still are still seeing kind of that post COVID need or, you know, expectation around flexibility and trust and being able to, you know, work for an organization where the flexibility is there, not just lip service, but, you know, lived and breathe, and they get to see that evidence coming through the interview process and sort of through the the offer. But I'd also say in a world of high volume and automation and an AI now being at the forefront, that real desire for human connection and actually having that personal contact, which is very difficult when you're dealing with high numbers and high volume as we all know. But that is so important to people now that the the organization does still have a faith, and they know that they're, you know, being considered to some extent by a person at the end of the process. So we're really trying to focus on how we get that right. But I definitely say that human connection is more needed now sort of than ever before. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think it's it's interesting because, again, it comes back to and do but do our recruiters have the right skill sets to have that human connection and that conversation in a in a meaningful way, particularly when it comes to volume? We're hearing all about the challenges around volume and the use of various technologies to, frankly, bombard systems with with applications in in many ways. And I think, Paul, we were speaking a week or so ago, and we were talking about how you've seen candidates using AI in the application process. I was wondering maybe you could share some of your experiences around that. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. So I think when we talk about AI, a lot of the time we talk about how are our teams utilizing AI. But in the recruitment world, we are clearly seeing candidates starting to adopt AI and adopting it in different ways. So, you know, typically, you know, we we we can't one hundred percent say, but we're pretty confident to say that people some applicants are using AI to support them with writing their CVs, with writing covering notes, with with with all of that, whatever that looks like. But interestingly, what we've also seen, we had a a a situation a little while ago where we had a candidate apply to about sixty of our vacancies in three minutes. Now, obviously, that's not humanly possible to to apply for that many roles without the use of some sort of technology. So we've assumed that they've used some sort of AI applying technology to support them. I've also first handedly seen and I'm pretty sure that I've seen this because I can't one hundred percent be sure. But when I was conducting a video interview a little while ago, I'm pretty confident that the candidate I was interviewing actually used an AI screen reader to help them answer some of their questions. And I think for me, the the the the biggest kind of factor that we need to think about at the moment, because we are in this discovery phase still. Right? It's it's we're all learning, you know, whether we're a candidate, whether we're a recruiter, yeah, hiring manager, whoever, is where is the acceptable use of AI in the recruiting process from a candidate perspective? You know, it it in one way, it's very good that they're using AI because they're utilizing new tools, new technology, and they might need to do that as part of their job. But where is that kind of line that says, right. You can use AI to help you with this part, but, actually, we don't want AI to be used in this part. So we're in this really interesting world at the moment of how we kind of move forward with it. And our approach is, you know, perhaps at this point, it's not best to be a leader in this space because it's such an unknown world. It's understanding and looking to see what are others doing, you know, how how are things kind of evolving in this world, and then making an informed decision as to how you then move forward with that appropriate use of AI. So really interesting world and, yeah, fascinating. And I I actually feel quite privileged that as part of my career, we're we're we're in this world because it'll be really exciting to see how it's gonna be taken forward. It's it's wild, isn't it, to think that, you know, it wasn't that long ago that I remember personally writing a, a covering letter to the point now where you can ask something to bespoke it from top to bottom to, to suit a particular organization and and so on and so forth. So I guess if you flip that narrative around, obviously, one one angle is how the candidates are using AI, Paul. But out of interest, how have you started thinking about using AI within your talent function itself? Yeah. Of course. Yeah. And and, actually, I've just seen someone just put a a comment in the in the chat about lazy apply as well just just in response to the point I was mentioning there. Yeah. So in terms of how we're using it as a team, so again, we're in its discovery phase at the moment. So we haven't been fast adopters at this point, and and that's for a specific reason because we wanna kinda see how this evolves. So for me and what I'm seeing, what what AI tools are we using? So, obviously, working with PageUp, we are soon to be introducing an AI chatbot on our career site, which is which is great. But from a team perspective, for me, at the moment, it's all about what what we class as virtual virtual systems. So how can the AI tools help us with some of the day to day tasks that we are doing, whether they feel like they're administrative administrative tasks or whether it's something else that makes us more efficient at bet and better at our jobs. So whether that is using a tool where it could potentially summarize a CV for you or key points, but but you're still using that kind of human decision making point as to whether to progress that CV or not. How we're using the likes of Copilot to help us with basic things like, you know, looking at job descriptions, writing job descriptions, or helping us to enhance adverts and advert text even as far as as as understanding how we use AI to support us with presentations or other things like that that we might have to do as part of our day to day work or interview questions. So we're in a bit of a discovery phase at the moment. We're not doing a huge amount in the world of AI, but we're gradually adopting it. And for me, as I said, it's all about these virtual assistants and how we can be better as a team with our capabilities, with our time, and with our efficiency. Yeah. Absolutely. And, I think as a as an organization, I know PageUp share a very similar view. It's about the ethical use of AI. It's like how are we making humans better at their jobs as opposed to how we are, dare I say, replacing or augmenting them, in in any particular way. Interesting enough, I spent a number of years working in learning and higher education technology, and one of the big themes there was how do they, of course, manage course submissions, which have been written using AI and so on and so forth. So I think we'll see parallels in other industries and organizations where we can start to learn around how we can spot and also equally engineer and celebrate the use of it in the appropriate way. So I think it'll be really fascinating to see how that, sort of manifests itself in the future. Now one of the sort of linchpins of, of course, everything from the way you write a job, a job role to a to a description through to how you assess someone is skills. And, Laura, I'd love to come to you. I'd love to hear a little bit around how, within your organization, how have you started to or looked at adopting a skills based approach, and how is that supporting development, and internal mobility? Yeah. Absolutely. So as I took touched on before, one of the things when we did our big sort of pathway to excellence and we noticed there was some inconsistencies in our hiring process from our hiring managers. We noticed as well through an EDNI audit that hiring managers were often recruiting on gut feel or just very basic surface based interview questions, which can lead to us not getting a very diverse workforce or not actually getting the right people. And one of the things that we noticed was our retention rate in the first six months was thirty four percent, which when you're doing twenty six thous when you're doing two thousand six hundred hires a year is a lot and a lot for the team to just keep churning and burning out. So earlier this year, we worked with PageUp to start moving towards a skills based approach for our manager level roles and above. Now what we didn't want to do is do a blanket approach for all roles until we've started trial and testing it because to launch over two thousand six hundred roles, one would overwhelm the TA team. But we'd also overwhelm the hiring managers and doesn't give us enough time to make sure what we're doing is having the right level of impact. So what we have done is look at it on a grade level, so manager manager level and senior exec hires. So we've done it as a bit of a two phased approach. So the first is when they apply and we shortlist them. We are then benchmarking too. They then have the skills, knowledge, and experience to be able to do the level of role that they've applied for, And that can be through a situational judgment test. It can be where where we need them to have good levels of data reporting or IT reporting. And then the next stage that we will do for our exec level hires is more personality testing based on the personalities and skills that we feel are suitable for that role. What we've seen now is actually the interview to acceptance ratio has significantly improved. So, actually, we're interviewing less people, but we're finding the right people first time around. And where people might have been excluded out of the interview process where there may have been some level of unconscious bias from our managers now doesn't exist because we're now presenting them with the individuals who we've seen at shortlist. We've now tested them against a set of skills, and we now say we're now suggesting you take them forward to interview. The next stage of this is then for us to look at cultural based assessment. As a social housing organization, we're never gonna be the organization where you're gonna get massive bonuses. You're gonna get massive pay increases, but you're in an organization where, actually, you're making a difference every day. And it's so important that we get cultural fit right as well as skill sets. So the next piece of work that we're gonna be looking at is on top of the skills based approach, how do we culturally hire right into our organization. So there's a lot of work being done in the background to link them to our people, promises to link at what do we think is the right hire for the right people. But the skills based approach for us really opened our eyes to hiring managers to kind of go, I probably would have rejected them before they'd even got to interview. And, actually, they've now been the person that based on all these tests and the fact of taking them to interview, I'm gonna offer them. And it's really helping our sort of capability, our diverse our diverse workforce. What makes it a more equitable process for candidates, and I think that's so important because everyone has some level of unconscious bias, whether some people feel comfortable saying they do have or they don't. And that happens in the in the recruitment process, but taking it back to skills based really does help us move away from that. And also gives us a really good chance to challenge hiring managers and say, they have passed all these level of assessments. Why would you not want to take them to the next stage of the interview? So I think it's really made us rethink and also really make our hiring managers rethink about who they should be recruited and how they should be recruited as well. Well, I mean, that's phenomenal. If you can have more equitable diverse hiring processes and better quality of hire, then that's, that really is the trifecta. That's that's phenomenal. That's congratulations, Lauren. That's that's a great story. Thank you very much. So in the interest of time, one of the things that I'd be really interested to do is just to launch our third poll. So this one is really digging into that topic around AI that we heard Paul touching on in particular. And so the poll question is, how do you expect your talent acquisition teams to be leveraging AI in twenty twenty six? So, hopefully, that will pop up in a second. If not, we will crack on. Hopefully, it'll appear in a in a minute. So whilst, we're waiting for that poll to appear, I want to now really dig into, a topic which I think has a lot of, exciting relevance. So the first one, is around that employer branding and EVP piece. Now what I'd love to do is is hear firstly from Laura, and I'd love to hear how you are adjusting and working with your teams to meet this kind of heightened expectation that candidates have around, that kind of marketing grade expectation that your candidates have. Yeah. Absolutely. So I think I think the biggest thing for us is we are going through a big EVP piece currently as we we will be moving away from place of people to PFP. And we have an organization that has fourteen, fifteen different subsets that are called DOE and TFM, Thrive and Investments, Thrive. I'm sure, Chris, your team are always probably saying, Chuck, we're a very unique organization. Places leisure. We keep we keep we're acquiring two companies a year. Employer brand is so important to us. And, actually, what what we were finding maybe a year ago is someone for are working for Durban FM, but didn't actually realize they were working for part of places for people. And we have to spend a lot of time to really make sure that actually our brand is the spring that runs through it. So, actually, places for people is our umbrella, and then how do we weave that journey underneath. Now what was really important for us as well is Derwent FM didn't want to lose their identity. RMG doesn't want to lose their identity. Thrive and Investments doesn't want to lose their identity. But, actually, how do we still have that overarching brand and really work on that candidate experience that they know It's it's got that similar brand effort that goes through it. So we did a lot of work in terms of making it as a marketing engine. So we really looked at what our storytelling was because at the heart of all the organizations that we've got, the main thing is we are there for our local communities. We're there to make communities a better place. So we looked at apps for our subsets trying trying to make better, healthier communities, whether that be through our leisure centers, whether that be through our homes, whether that be for our student accommodation. And we really looked at that, and then we looked at our customers through talent acquisition, so our candidates as our communities as well so that when they land on our web page, they feel part of the community. They know what benefits they're gonna get. The recruitment process is transparent to them from the beginning, and you will hear back about your role within this period of time. And, actually, how did we link the two together? Because it's so important when you look at a brand. You're looking at it from that talent acquisition journey as well because it's great having a lovely website that tells you everything you can do. If they have a really poor candidate experience and don't hear anything back, then that brought you might as well just not add anything on your website anyway. So similar to what the other people have been saying is how do you leverage that ATS? How do you actually then upscale your staff? Because they are brand ambassadors as well. So it's equally as important to make sure you've got this lovely website. You've got these lovely messages going out. But if your team aren't equipped to sell your story, to sell the benefits of working for your organization, your brand is going to fall down. So we looked at it in that multifaceted approach in terms of what we want our story to tell, what we want our website to be, but when our candidates are going through this this journey, what are the moments that matter? So the moments that matter is when they're being approached about a role, whether when they're being invited for a role, even when they're being, you know, rejected for a role, how do we make them still feel I want to go back through this journey? I may not have had the outcome I want, but I would reapply. And then at the moment then, how do we onboard successfully as well? So that was kind of what we looked at. We looked at it the whole holistic journey and not just a flash in the pan, update our website. Actually, how do we then make sure wherever you go, that brand is tran is is consistent? Yeah. No. That's that's super powerful. I love that notion of being brand ambassadors, and I think that connection is something that we all look to have with every organization when you're buying something through to looking for reassurance or support. And I can really see how those two things combined are incredibly powerful. Now one of the things we hear reoccurring theme, and, Sarah, I'd love to hear your thoughts on, is around, how we can use employee voices and advocacy, to really build trust, and actually promote diversity, which I know is something that is very, important to you and your organization. Yeah. Absolutely. And we're probably on the the start of this journey. Definitely, I think it's really important because your story has to be authentic. And, you know, it's the people who work in the organization who were going to tell the truth about what it's like to work in that organization. I think I alluded before to the fact that our sort of project for getting our EVP off the ground was a large chunk of time was immersed in interviewing and researching with our colleagues. And then we've gone through a validation phase with sort of you said we heard. Is this is this correct? So when we've made sure throughout the process that the what we've said is now the people deal is authentic. I think the phase that we're getting to now is firstly looking at the colleague life cycle and making sure that every touch point in that colleague life cycle is reflected then with the with the people deal with our brand, but also starting now to think about how we take those voices out externally, and that's at the point we're at now with our journey. We're actually going to be doing some work on the career site with PageUp in the new year. So that's a great starting point. And then thinking about, you know, how do we get those stories out there? How are those voices heard? How do we reflect this through all of our channels to market? So, yes, it's definitely a big big one for us, and that is also sort of we're gonna do more of that in the in the next twelve months. Brilliant. Brilliant. I think, though, it's a it's a huge piece of work to to Yeah. How you portray employee voices in the right way, but give also our prospective candidates the ability to, to make them form their own opinions. So I'm I'm very conscious of time. There's a couple of really important things I wanna cover off here. One is around how we measure success within our talent acquisition teams today, and the second one is around what are your kind of top tips as you look forward to next year. And I do wanna make sure we have some time for q and a. So I'm gonna come sort of quickly to, to Paul and Laura here. Now the question I'd love to hear from you, Paul, firstly is around sort of how are you measuring success within your TA function today? And has that has that actually evolved, I guess, in the last twelve months? Yeah. It's a good question. How do you how do you measure success? I mean, ultimately, it's about filling roles at the right time with the right people, but there's so many different metrics that kind of sit behind that as well. So, you know, we we get a huge amount of data when you're dealing with such a high volume of applicants. We get a huge amount of data in the system, and we've got some really, really good dashboards that that that that we were able to utilize. So for us, you know, it's around volume of applications. It's around trying to measure the quality of those applications as well, which is sometimes quite quite challenging to do. It's about measuring offer volumes. It's about measuring the time to hire, and time to hire can be broken down in so many different elements. Understanding withdrawals, why do people withdraw from the process, whether it is at application stage, whether it's at office stage. Feedback from all of our customers, whether it's applicants, whether it's hiring managers, having measures in place for that. And then, of course, things around diversity data is really important. And we even go as far as as looking at data that we put out of LinkedIn as well. So, for example, in mail acceptance rates and volume of of in mails that we're sending sending out as well. So we measure a lot. We've got a really great dataset on how to do it, and it's evolved a lot. I think with with the world that we're in and the world that we continue to move in, it's all data, data, data. What is the data telling us? You know, there is so much data out there. We can never really stand still. We have to keep leveraging that data to our advantage. And for those companies, I do believe that that utilize their data in a in a real positive way. I do think that they really do get a lot out of that, and I'd like to think that we are one of those organizations. And just touching back to one of the points I I I raised at the start as well about those awards, one of the things that you come to recognize when you're submitting your nominations for each of the awards categories, whatever it is that you're going for as normalization, you realize how important data is, and, actually, it enables you when you're putting those submissions through to understand your journey over the last twelve months from a data point of view as much as anything else. So that was really positive. So so it's a good it's a good example of of even if you, you know, apps are not thinking about going for awards, I would highly recommend looking at it because it gives you that time to really focus on the last twelve months and to kind of script it out in a way in that nomination that that just enables you to see what you have achieved. Absolutely. And I guess there's that thing there around data kinda helps you tell the story, but then if you can overlay that with candidate feedback, then that really then brings the true story. You've got kind of the the quantitative story and then the qualitative story, and together, you can really learn where you're where you're having the greatest impact. So I guess, Laura, I guess, do you have any, additional metrics that you look at beyond what what Paul shared there in terms of how you measure success in your function? Yeah. So I think very similar to what Paul said. We we've just recently introduced a Power BI dashboard, which pulls out all of our information from our applicant tracking system and likewise, also pulls it out from LinkedIn. Now one of the great things we can now see is similar to what Paul was saying in that time to hire is where in that journey it sticks. And one of the things we found is actually from interviewing to offer is actually our largest time is where it sticks. And from a hiring manager interview into them passing us the offer is currently sitting in some of our business areas, particularly in the trades where we struggle to recruit and the turn turnover is really high at fifteen days, which is completely unacceptable. Now there's a couple of things in there. They might be doing second stage interviews or the first interview might be taking place one week, and the second the second load of people are interviewed is two weeks from there. But what it gives us is that really good insight to have those conversations with hiring managers to say, you know, on average, it's taking you fifteen days to make an offer from you actually interviewing that person. Do you know on average, a joiner in London is going to get snapped up within about five days because there's not a skill you know, because they it's it's a candidate driven market. You can't be spending that amount of time. Likewise, the e d and I metrics that we can now use and, you know, leveraging the census data that we've now got within ERQ because, actually, sometimes we will get in our high profile roles is I want a really strong balance shortlist before we move to interview. And we might be looking for a role in Liverpool, though it's gonna be that little bit more challenging to get the balance shortlist of what they're looking for. But actually using that big data versus the data that we've currently got, we can have those really sort of meaningful conversations with our hiring managers to say, actually, if we're just looking at recruiting in Liverpool, we might be struggling to get that balance shortlist. However, does this role need to be done in Liverpool? If we're looking at more diverse workforces, can we go further? Does it need to be a fully office based role? And actually help us drive the in the insights on how we become that adviser with our with our business areas to drive some of the key metrics that we want to get to be more diverse as well. Absolutely. Yeah. That that's fantastic. And I think the, it's always a wrestle of quality, quantity, and speed, isn't it? And you're trying to look at all those and wrestle, right, what's the most important thing, but actually high quality, really human, high value conversations and ultimately, the right person and the right job is is really what matters. Brilliant. So we've got about four minutes, before we want to open up the q and a for the last sort of closing section. And I'd like to come with it to each of you in a Mystic Meg fashion with your crystal ball, and I'd love to hear from each of you two succinct key things. Firstly, what do you think is gonna be the biggest single challenge for talent teams in twenty twenty six? And then the second one, if you had one piece of advice that you would give to your fellow TA leaders as they prepare for the year ahead, what would that be? So, Paul, you're right in the middle of my screen, so I'm gonna come to you first if that's okay. Yeah. Okay. So I'm gonna go with the biggest challenge. Something a bit generic. For me, it's the unknown is gonna be our biggest challenge because where we have visibility of things that are changing, we can plan, we can act, we can do something about it. It's where we keep getting curveballs in this ever changing world. And if you think about what we've all dealt with over the last five years, it has been an incredibly volatile world. And and quite honestly, I don't know what is coming next. So for me, the biggest the biggest thing that we need to to to keep out for is just plan. Well, not plan, but but recognize those unknowns and plan for everything else. In terms of the bit of advice going forward, my view is very simple. Harness your data. Utilize your data in the most effective way possible. I love it. That's that's brilliant. Super pragmatic and very tangible. Something we can all take away from that. Thank you, Paul. Sarah, let's come to you next. So I would say biggest challenge, skills are gonna add fine experience. So when you're dealing in a world where there's volume, how do you get to those skills for that role quickly and efficiently? And it's making sure that you've got an eye on that and something in place to help. So I definitely say that and understanding, therefore, what you need in your organization from a skills perspective over the next two, three, five years so that you are, you know, you're solving a problem with that as well. In terms of advice, and I I guess it's linked as well to skills, but know what skills you already have. So do you have a good internal, you know, mobility process? Are you looking internally first? Are you developing people? Do you know who your high potentials are? Are you giving people opportunity to multiscale and learn? I think if you can get that right, you know, the the the almost strain on the resourcing function reduces. So that would be sort of my my tip, really. Absolutely. Data and skills. These these are two superb Just just small topics. Just a tiny one. It's alright. Excellent. And last but certainly not least, Laura, what about yourself? Yeah. Absolutely. I think one of the biggest challenges is the whole thing of trying to do more with less. And I think a lot of TA teams face this is budgets are tight, things like national insurance, wage increases, national minimum wage increases will always affect then the bottom line and what what you can spend when you can spend it. And then the volumes of hires never seem to shift, but, actually, you're always being asked to do more with less. And I think that's why it's so important to have your team upscaled, looking at how you're leveraging AI, that you're not actually wasting a lot of time building job descriptions or writing job adverts when you can utilize AI to support you. Well, actually, how you know, spending money on the right thing as well and actually investing in things that have the biggest bang for your buck, I think, is really important. And, actually, what is going to have that biggest impact because, you know, you can spend you can throw your money at a lot of things in TA and not actually get you results. In terms of advice, I think similar to what Paul said is data, I think, is so important. What I will add to that as well is once you know your data is to don't walk by stuff. So, actually, I think it's really important to have your data, but then what are you doing with that data? So when you notice there may be gaps in EDNI data or a quality in terms of female versus male hires or ethnic minority hires or even some issues when you time to hire a script of one month to the next or in a certain business hire. What are you doing with that data? Because sometimes you hear a lot of people say, we've got all of this data. We understand what our time to hire is. Okay. Well, what are we doing with it? How are we improving it? How do we then become a value add? Because, you know, TA teams, especially internal, will always be an overhead. And, actually, how do we add value to our business areas? How do we become those trusted advisers? And how do we use that data to build the future strong team so much what Sarah was saying in terms of that you've got people on your talent pipeline when you're creating entry level roles. They should be the gateway to your future successes, and you can't do that without the right level of data and doing the right things with it as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's, it's great to hear that there's consistency irrespective of organization industry that we're focused on all the right things in terms of driving the right candidate and outcomes, but also it's that piece around understanding what does the candidate need and what does the organization need and making smart investments to optimize that. So to draw things to a close, and thank you so much for the last near hours worth of conversation. It's been really fascinating. We've got a couple of questions in the q and a. And, Paul, we're gonna come to you for one here, which was a question that was, what reporting and data management functionality do you use to manage and track the metrics you were describing? Is that via your ATS, or are you using other tools? Yeah. So good question. So the data mainly pulls out of our ATS, we put it into Power BI. But there's lots of different sources of data, LinkedIn being another one. But having having that kind of one stop shop for your data is really, really helpful. And just coming back to a point that that Laura mentioned as well a moment ago, having your data is one thing. Doing something with it is another. It's always the so what of that data. So I've got that piece of data in front of me, but but so what? What is it actually telling me? What am I actually doing with it? And that's the the key bit for me is once you've got your good data dashboards, your information, whatever it is, you've got to move to that next level of of the so what and keep questioning and challenging yourself on it. Absolutely. That's brilliant. Thank you very much, Paul. Really appreciate that. And I think we've got time for one more. So Brendan asked a question towards the about halfway through the call. Be interesting if anyone wants to take this one. So companies are taking different approaches to the use of AI in the interview process. Some actively encourage it. Some request that candidates do not use AI at all. So given Gen AI is an important skill, what is the panel's stance on where organizations should stand on this? So I guess if we were to look at the the wider panel, I guess the question there is, are we in the we want to encourage camp or the actually we're going to say don't use it for now? Where do people feel on that you are on that spectrum right now? Well, I'll answer. I mean, I I'm in the I'm quite happy for candidates to use it as long as it's an aid and not actually giving them all the answers. But I think if you upscale hiring managers on how to interview correctly, they shouldn't be able to use AI just to answer questions because you need to delve deeper, don't you? And AI will give you a surface answer to any if you throw any type of job description in in terms of what question might you get asked and how you might be answered. But I also think AI is so important when we look at I know I've talked about this a lot, but individuals that may have disabilities who need a bit more support with helping them pull together their applications, giving them time to think about what they might be answering the questions on and how that relies back to them. But, also, AI is going nowhere, and we need our we need the people we're employing to also be able to use these technologies. So, actually, someone going away and using it and to help them and support them shows the probably the right people that we want in our organization. And I think just having a blank personally, we've kinda said it. We we're not gonna have a blanket. No. If you use AI, you're not coming through the door. But, actually, what we would do is where we think people have used it is how do we probe deeper so that we actually know it's them. We know it's their skills and experience. We know it's their personality coming through. And how do we get our hiring managers and our TAs to really understand beneath what the surface level of what we might be seeing? Absolutely. I'm conscious we are bang on time. So I guess, look, in summary, this has been truly, truly fascinating and inspiring. I think the really exciting thing to see here is that we've talked about, yes, technological innovation is incredible. And, absolutely, we should be looking at how we can make intelligent investments to use it and encourage the adoption of it. But the thing I've loved most about this is technology and technology alone doesn't solve problems. Technology and skills and people solves problems, making sure that we have this right skills to make the most of the technology, but also to be able to look for the right skills in those that are looking to join our organizations. I think going back to what we what Paul you were saying earlier, it is an sort of a slightly uncertain future at the moment in terms of what the world looks like, but there's a huge amount of opportunity for all of us. I think we've seen that the the things are consistent and truly exciting. I thank everybody for joining, your questions, your engagement, and I we would love to continue to hear and talk to all of you. And if there's demand for more of these sessions, we'd equally love to share these stories again. So, Sarah, Paul, Laura, thank you so much for all of your time. It's been it's been brilliant. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Take care, everybody.