Hello everyone, welcome. Thank you for joining us today for today's webinar, which we're calling fixing the foundations of construction TA, helping them move from reactive to resilient. And we're joined by some amazing speakers today, so thank you for that. Before I get into those introductions though, hold your introductions for a moment. A couple of just few housekeeping bits and pieces for me. So firstly, very quickly, today's session is going to be recorded and we'll be following up with a copy of the recording today. As we go through, there is a chat function, but there is also another specific Q and A function. So in the top screen of Zoom, if you go to the three dots and you want to submit some questions for our panellists, feel free to use the Q and A and we'll, we'll get to those questions, at the end of the discussion. So, yeah, please, interact, and contribute. That would be great. And then again, just a very quick piece for me today is that today's webinar is really centred around and anchored around our latest research report that PageUp has done around construction hiring and the state of hiring in UK construction. The report will share some of the key findings today, but we'll also be sharing a copy of the report with everyone with a copy of the recording as well. So, let's have some fun, and let's start. So, could I just ask each of you just very quickly just to give a quick introduction and maybe tell us a little bit about your TA org and how it operates today? Charlotte, you're first on the screen, so I'll go to you first. Perfect. So I'm Charlotte Hayward, head of talent acquisition at Tilbury Douglas. So I'm actually eight weeks into my role at Tilbury Douglas. So fairly new, to Tilbury Douglas, but worked in the sector, for some time. So it's a really exciting time for us. We're actually in the middle of a transformation in how we approach recruitment. So like many construction companies, our hiring has traditionally been very demand led, driven by live project pipelines, often working at pace, working in very specific locations. So the challenge isn't just volume. It's about finding the right skills, for us at the right in the right places at the right time. So day to day, that means our TA function is balancing two priorities, delivering against kind of our immediate project needs, but also building kind of long term pipeline. So we're going through a bit of a transformation, which I'm sure I'll I'll get on to talking a little bit more about. So we've got a team of four within our TA function. We hire about two hundred and forty hires per year. So but from an employee value proposition perspective, we're really we've got really low attrition rate here at Tilbury Douglas. So for us, it's about kind of offering, long term careers, meaningful work, career longevity, and a strong sense of belonging is what we really focus on, when we're talking about our employee value proposition in the market. But, yeah, we are in a an early stage of a transformation to take us out of that kind of transactional recruitment function into, a more proactive function. Look forward to hearing about all the lessons that you're you're going through there, Charlotte. So thank you. Nadim, you're next on the screen, so over to you. Great. Thank you. So, Nadim Mazar, I am the workforce planning and resourcing director for Sir Robert McAlpine. I've been here over eight years now. And for those of you who don't know Sir Robert McAlpine, we're a family owned business. We have been around for about a hundred and fifty six years now. So, you know, there are existing McAlpine still in the business, which is great. Our headcount's roughly about fifteen hundred people direct staff. But at any one time, we've probably got, let's say, circa twenty five thousand plus on projects across the country. I mean, we the sort of builds that we get involved with anything iconic. So if you could imagine over a hundred and fifty years, you know, we've we've we've built we've built every sort of thing you could imagine, you know, stadiums and commercial offices and you name it. We we've done it bridges and industrial stuff. So the the three main areas that we focus on, commercial offices, health care, and industrial. Specifically, for me, what I'm responsible for, so anything sort of talent within the business, so emerging talent, experience, and seniors. And more recently, I've been involved with the strategic workforce planning. So making sure we've got people with the right skills on our projects at the right time during different phases of the projects. So I suppose my main focus is around efficiencies and data led decision making within resourcing. Amazing. So thank you. Really looking forward to getting your your insights as well, Nadine. Thank you. Yves? Hi. Thank you for having me. So I'm I'm Ivar Bush. I'm the talent acquisition leader at Lang O'Rourke. So I've been in the business just under a year now. Lang O'Rourke is quite a large global engineering manufacturing and construction business. We're we're very fortunate to have a significant order book, which stands about eighteen billion pounds of of work in hand. So what what this means for for the the talent acquisition function is we have got significant needs right now and and and ongoing demand. So I I lead the European hub, which includes the Europe and Middle East. The the team is currently about twenty twenty of us in the talent acquisition team, and we've managed last year just over six hundred hires. But currently, the the volume that we're facing is is currently about four hundred and sixty to to sort of five hundred reps at any one time. So quite a significant volume. We're we're really driven by a purpose, which is pushing the boundaries of what's possible in service of humanity. So similar to to what Nadim said, we we we've covered all sorts of amazing projects over the years, and we've got some some huge projects in the pipeline. What we really pride ourselves is is creating sort of meaningful careers and and sort of inclusive work work workplaces where where people can really thrive. So that, from our perspective, has been a a real sort of attracting point for for for for candidates. So lots of activity, lots of of of really good conversation. I can feel that are gonna come from this session, so looking forward to it. Amazing. Thank you all. So we wanted to give you something to hang your hat on and give you something to to give a perspective on. So really, let's just set the scene for a few minutes, and pull out some of the really key findings that we would love to get your thoughts on. To me, some of these numbers look like there's a real paradox at the heart of construction hiring right now. If I think about the broader market for a moment nationally across all industries, I think UK unemployment has been trending up. Open vacancies have been softening, and I guess we're not seeing that here in the numbers, particularly for construction. There doesn't seem to be any relief for the requirements and the demand for the types of skills that you have. So, again, you know, just something for construction specific data points. I think there was a total of a hundred and forty thousand unfilled vacancies on the market just in the UK today. Again, it's an aging, workforce as well, so lots of people will be due to retire over the next ten years. There's been a lot of talk about the missing million, you know, one million new construction workers required, net new required, over the next ten years. And again, you know, we're seeing that in terms of the demographics where twenty percent of people that are in construction, are under thirty, oh, sorry, only twenty percent is under thirty. And then, again, we're seeing a real disparity in the gender demographics as well for construction. So if we look at, for example, as well, construction construction hiring numbers, when we compare construction globally and our construction clients to all other industries, what we're seeing is that construction, yes, from twenty twenty four through to twenty twenty five, there was certainly a twenty percent increase in the number of applicants per role, but that's not funneling through the funnel. So actually in twenty twenty five, there was a decrease of seventeen percent of qualified candidates per role, and actually an offer acceptance rate of seventy eight percent, which is, know, that's twelve points lower than the global average of a ninety percent offer acceptance rate across all industries. And all other industries are seeing the increase in applications, but they're also therefore seeing the knock on effect of having increased number of qualified candidates. So this really seems to be a bit of a disparity for for construction and the the the ecosystem in which you're operating in. And then if we look at candidate behavior, we've been monitoring and and and collecting data points on candidate behavior. And what we're seeing certainly in construction is that mobile applications has nearly doubled from twenty twenty four through to twenty twenty five. So we've seen mobile applications of thirty four percent, desktop applications dropping slightly to sixty six percent, but I guess there's a knock on effect to that, which is mobile applications see almost a double or more than double the rate of incompleted applications versus desktop. Some interesting stats as well on some of the the major sourcing channels and that it's interesting to see that where there is an existing relationship, whether it be internal mobility, a recruiter having a relationship, or a referral, clearly there are really good returns on the number of applications needed to secure a single hire. But in what I call the public facing forums, Careersight, you know, is is is double the efficiency of some of job boards and social media. So a lot more application volume needed to work through to find that that one hire. So there was just some really interesting statistics that we wanted to to to sort of put to you, really, and the data shows some striking differences. Right? So some of the key challenges that what I see there is a skill shortage, low offer acceptance rate, candidate quality in the funnel. Do any of those resonate with with you? And what would you say is some of the what what does that look like for each of you in your in your teams on a day to day basis based on some of those statistics? So why don't we start with Nadim if we can ask for you to just give us your thoughts? I'd I'd definitely say some of our sort of mid to senior level roles. I mean, there there's definitely a shortage of people in the marketplace. I think, you know, I've I've seen personally, you know, that particular skill set. And, you know, if you wanna look at commercial as an example, they've been prized away by big numbers, you know, abroad, you know, over in in the Middle East, for example. So we are losing talent, and, you know, that's having a knock on effect on the UK companies trying to attract. And then when we do try to attract them, the numbers are bigger, salaries are bigger. So, you know, it all all compounds. But, yeah, that definitely. I mean, I can definitely relate to a lot of those numbers. Yeah. Charlotte? Yeah. Probably the same for me, but probably more around offer acceptance rates. I think looking at our data that I've kind of I've been looking at all of our data, I guess, especially in being new and post, really. I think in a post COVID world, what talent wants now are we are the construction is the construction sector really really adapting to that kind of post COVID world? Or it's still a very much candidate driven market? And I think in the reality when we are putting out offers, we are finding that those individuals have got multiple offers on the table. So it's really understanding their drivers, what they're looking for, and really selling our EVP effectively. So I think that's something that that, you know, for me, what resonated is probably the offer acceptance rate. I think that as a business is something we we if we look at the data for the last twelve months, I think that's something that that is is is a challenge for us. And like Denidim said, I think commercial talent is there's there's skill shortages in quite a lot of our our our key roles. A lot of the preconstruction roles, a lot of our commercial roles, the demand is still there and the salaries are forever increasing, really. Yeah. Wage inflation is certainly an impact in any market when, you know, suppliers is low and demand is high. But, Yves, interesting that you look after a mere end Middle East and Nadim called out, you know, the migration of talent to some of those those particular areas. Is that number number one challenge for you, or do you see it slightly differently? No. I think I think similar to to to to what the other sort of panelists have said, hey. You know, we we're we're we're seeing the same challenges. I think one one of the things to call out as I've seen this morning that some of the positive news in in green shoots is, I think now we're moving to one in four construction workers under the age of of thirty rather than one in five. So I think there is there is a glimmer of hope at the end of the the tunnel, which is really good. But but from our perspectives, I think there's a vast number of applications. The quality is is probably a little bit more of a challenges and and, you know, particularly at your sort of middle managerial and upwards level. And and as Charlotte just just highlighted as well, you know, candidates have got multiple offers on the table. And and and what we tend to see is, you know, to be able to to have that conversion rate, it takes a huge amount of effort to make sure that you're genuine, make sure that, you know, you have a a a great candidate experience, that your your talent team is really sort of building relationships and and and and giving that that genuine experience to people that reflects how how the organization is is is is sort of just bringing an experience to employees and and how they're looking to to develop careers. So that is really important. I think we we have got a a slightly better sort of offer conversion rate, but I think the effort and the time that it takes is is is a little bit longer. So there there there are quite a lot of challenges that we're we're maneuvering around. Yeah. Interesting. So we'll stay with you, Yves, because, again, you've mentioned a few things about how much work and how much effort goes into managing the challenge of a skill scarcity. And I think it's fair to say that from what I've heard from all of you, it seems like the skill shortage is a now problem. It's not a predicted problem in the future. Again, a lot of these talk about a million workers in two thousand thirty two, right? So it could be a a later problem rather than a now problem, but, I'm hearing it's it's here and now. What's could you maybe just peel away another layer for me and just what is one of one or two of the most single biggest levers that you've got when it comes to dealing with skill shortage and some of these challenges we've been talking about? You've talked about some of the effort that your team put in. Is there anything that you can share with the the audience? Yeah. I think there there's been an awful lot of work that that's been done with the business in regards to demand forecasting. So understanding a lot earlier what what is the demand going to be so we can start to proactively go out to market, build those relationship, engage with candidates, and engage with with talent, create talent communities. That means that we are we are able to really stand out from from the competition. So I think moving from a a reactive to a much more strategic and proactive approach has been key from our perspective. So we we've done an awful lot of work of of working really closely in partnership with the business to get that solid understanding of what's coming over in the long term and and, you know, as far as sort of two, three years down the line. And I think it's it's it's been relatively successful probably due to the size and scale of the projects that we have. We have much longer sort of lead time in our bids. We're able to really understand a lot earlier what the demand is likely to be in in in those roles. So I think that that solid vision of what's coming over and having the team proactively engaging earlier in the process with with talent is is key for us. Yeah. Thank you. Charlotte, same question to you. What what sort of one or two things do you and your team focus on, particularly when it comes to finding the right skills for the right job at the right time? Yeah. So our our business is really good at internally promoting talent and developing talent internally. And we've got a lot of long standing individuals that have been with Tilby Douglas for some time, which when we are then looking externally at the market, then we are looking more at skills based hiring rather than technical ability. I think we need to do it more as a sector as a whole. Like, in leadership roles, is that technical background as important or is it more about people skills? So I think that's one thing that I've come into the Tilbury Douglas business and really I recognized about our business is that we very much kind of look at the individual rather than their technical ability. So we are looking at skills matching more than than technical recruitment, which hopefully then will drive that that diversity piece and look at it from a skills basis rather than a role by role. We seem to be really open minded as a business, which is really refreshing refreshing to see, really. So that's one thing. Again, like Eve said, I think it's about, for for us, it's about nurturing that those talent pools and nurturing. We're probably in our early infancy of that as a business, if I'm honest, but we need to be kind of far more far more proactive. We're also looking at our workforce planning piece. So I will be leading on that as a but, again, we've we've created a tool in house that will support us with with looking at that. Because the sooner we know about it, then then the better we are in finding the right skills in the right place at the right time. What we do as a business is a lot in in in the defense health care and education sector. So a lot of those defense projects can quite remote. So it's really key to to to look at those well in advance to make sure that we can find the right talent in the right area. So that's something I'm working with the business on, but I would say we're probably not as far ahead as Yves and Nadim in in that in that process, but that is something that we have in our overall strategy and plan moving forward. Amazing. Well, we hope to create a bit more of a forum for TA leaders like yourself to share and learn from each other. But, Nadine, a bit of a loaded question. I know Charlotte's early on in her talent pipelining, talent pooling activity. I know that we spoke, in the run up to this and there was kind of a big focus for you in terms of how you are nurturing passive talents and building talent pools. Could you maybe just expand for us on that and maybe give us some specifics? Yeah. So, I mean, we've we've got our talent pools, and, you know, we've we've been building those for a number of years. So we're quite agile when we can move out into the market relatively quickly. And, you know, this constant engagement with those talent pools. But as you know, something that we've been working on for the last three years has been around the workforce planning piece and how, you know, we work that within the business and in the project. So, you know, I'd I'd I'd like to think now we're we're a a really advanced stage with that. But, yeah, definitely talent pools, you know, with the external market. That's something that's really key for us. And, yeah, it just it just helps us to move relatively quickly when, you know, projects are coming through the door because we know who we could approach straight away. We've kept them warm, and, you know, they're they're all keen. I think the key for us is just really keeping those talent pools warm constantly. So, you know, pushing out information, keeping them engaged, what's going on in the company. So, yeah, that that that's been really good for us. Amazing. And I guess if we're talking broadly about talent pools in general, something that is hard to ignore is, you know, the supply sorry, the supply and demand metrics around the gender demographics. As the report puts it, clearly it's a systemic thing that's come from construction in the past, but clearly I know every construction firm I work with is trying to address this. Is it a gender initiative or is it actually limiting the talent pool itself with the with the the supply available for that talent pool? Like, how are you looking at gender imbalance in particular? Charlotte, may I come to you first? I'll come to yeah. So we've done a huge piece of work at Tilbury Douglas around, inclusivity. So we've got our Freddie values, which surround fairness, respect, quality, diversity, inclusion, and engagement. So we've got our Freddie values. We've got a lot of, we've created a lot of it around inclusive environment, and we've really prioritized that as a business. From an attraction perspective, I think this goes back to grassroots and how we are, I guess, selling careers in construction. And I think as a business, it's something we're looking at, and I think we're really open minded. I think the skills based recruitment piece is something we're we're looking at more and more because I think that will then naturally support that that kind of gender imbalance that we have at the moment. But I think if if I'm honest, I think the real question for me is is as a sector, are we really creating an environment where women want to work and stay. I think post COVID, I think, regardless of gender, I think we have probably had some challenges as a sector with people accessing our sector. But equally, I think we've had from attraction piece, I think we can attract more women, and and we can support with changing the the the perceptions of the sector. And I think that's done at an early stage even before, I guess, an advert goes live or or the recruitment even starts. But I think the real impact, I think, for me is is, you know, can we attract and retain women in our sector? And I think we've spoken about this for many years. I joined the sector in twenty seventeen, mainly worked purely in my career. I've always worked in male dominated sectors. But, yeah, are we doing enough as a sector? Would be my question to to retain women once we've attracted them. But I think for me, the skills based recruitment piece and also having that visibility at leadership level, we've got some great senior leaders that are female within our business, that we've got other females and other you know, our early careers people can really look up to those individuals and go to them for support. And we've obviously got a number of inclusivity groups that are driving that change within our business. But, yeah, I think there's still probably a little bit of a debate for me around in a post COVID world, are we going back as sector or or what are we moving are we moving this forward? What I quite like about Tilbury Douglas and what really is we look at the role in the individual. So we don't kinda set rules around hybrid working. We're really flexible in our our approach around what the requirements of the role is, what visibility and collaboration requires, and then look at the kind of individual needs of the candidate, which I think drives that drives that gender piece and the flexibility to get diverse talent into those roles. Amazing. I think representation and role modeling is really important for the discussion itself, so I'm glad you you touched on that. Nadine, what about you? Skills based hiring, is that enough to address the gender imbalance, or is does it need its own its own lens? I think a bit of both. I think I mean, there there's definitely, you know, a a limited amount of female candidates within construction. And, you know, we're seeing less females possibly come into construction. We need to make it attractive. And by making it attractive, the environment's gotta be right. And, yeah, I think I think as an industry, you know, we will go out to schools and colleges individually and say how how great it is in all of our companies respectively. But I think we need to do it as an industry because it is an industry problem. And, you know, it's not only about gender, it's ethnicity, and or, you know, all of the other characteristics around inclusion. And, yeah, I think we need to really put our heads together in all of these big and small companies and work together to solve the problem rather than doing it individually. That's my view. Interesting. And like you say, it's a structural issue, it seems like it's Yeah. Too big an issue for just one organization to tackle on its own. Absolutely. Keith, what about your thoughts on on the wider talent pooling and adding more demographics to the possible supply chain? Yeah. I think I think going to a a skills based approach or or sort of widening the the the pools is certainly gonna help. But I think, as as the other panelists have said, you know, there is something around creating the right culture, making sure you've got inclusive organizations. So we've got a a pretty ambitious target as a business. We're we're looking to achieve gender parity by twenty thirty two. So we're doing extremely well. You know, when when I look at the figures of of rounds or fifteen percent of of the construction workforce is female, you know, at Langmuirall, we've we've managed to be the to have over a quarter of of our colleagues are female. So we're doing something really well from that perspective. But it's around sort of making sure you create those this inclusive culture. You know, we've got some groups in in in in the business where we are talking about it. It comes from the top down. That's really important to have this all genuine approach and and and and and feeling that the business truly believes it from the top down and and promoting it. I think that that is really key. We we we definitely need to create as a as a sector. We need to create much more awareness. There is still this this sort of vision that, you know, it's a it's a dirty job. We're gonna be on the building site. I'm gonna be putting bricks on top of each other and so on. And I think that needs to be really addressed addressed as a collective. It cannot be an organization on its own that can that can do that. And and I think one point that was really raised as well, which is which is really important is we need to to make sure we are also going through and and going out and and promoting that in school, but probably in primary school. I think by the time you've moved to secondary school, it's probably already too late. So it's really sort of creating that awareness a lot earlier on, and that has to be done as a collective. Very interesting. Thank you. I appreciate that. I do wanna just share again the screen because there's one more slide that I thought I would just share with the group because, again, one of the big topics of this report is really helping organizations to move through that maturity curve, when we talk about how organizations, you know, operate across their talent acquisition operations. And we've heard, you know, even some of yourselves will remember a day where you actually started with that reactive hiring, right? Here's the demand, here's the need. I bet you even see that in some flavors even today, no matter how strategic you want to or try to be. But, again, don't worry. I won't ask you to self assess yourselves in terms of this maturity model, in terms of where you are today. But more importantly, how do you each apply the thought process around how you you assess where you need to mature strategically and both from a technology perspective? And how do you then go about making that decision and articulating that requirement to the business to help you become more strategic as a function? Can you just share maybe an initiative or two that you've been through recently, how you identified that that would make a difference and maybe some of the the the obstacles that you that you faced during that process when when articulating that back to the business. Go on, Charlotte. Yeah. I was I was wondering who to pick, but thank you for putting your hand up. I guess we are probably going through this at the moment as a business. So before I joined Tilby Douglas, I guess the function had an external consultancy that that came in and and did a bit of an external review on the function to decide how it was to to drive it forward. I'm really lucky that I am in a position where I've joined a business that it's really we we wanna get to TA level five, if you wanna call it, in maturity. The business really, really want it. Our RDs and MDs really, really want it. It's how we get it to that point, really. So how I'm going to approach it, I guess, is is is is with our team is is really going in with a collaborative approach and and getting the team's feedback on what what lessons learned, what what can we do differently, what's working well, what isn't working well. Get feedback from our candidates, feedback from our new starters, really on what we're what we're doing well, what aren't we doing well, and take that feedback take that feedback from our hiring managers, which which luckily this this kind of external report has given me a lot of that data, which is really helpful to land into a business with already that. So you almost know that groundwork has already been done. So I almost know the the problems that need to be fixed, but it's as a team collaborating really and then start to work on some of those key key projects that are gonna make a huge amount of difference. So things like workforce planning, we've built a tool internally, to support us with that. But have we rolled it out? Have we are we utilizing the best possible way? That that's a key project for us to get us out of that reactive and into that proactive state for me. But I think we're probably very much in our early infancy of all of that, but I think it's very much a collaborative approach. But thankfully for me, I think our business is really aware that our projects and our delivery is that our is only is only as good as our people really, and the people that we hire. We've got some great, internal talent that have progressed, and been with the business a long time. But as we grow as a business and as we achieve our strategy, I think that external talent piece is really important. So I think I'm really lucky that I've landed in a business that really understands that and are really open minded to hear what we need in order to achieve that. So, yeah, I'm kind of lucky, and and our CEO is already really keen to understand the strategy and understand how we can move this forward, and they really want pace on this, which is really refreshing to hear. So I haven't come across many challenges to date, but I'm sure, yeah, I think they understand that we're only as good as our people. Well, very exciting time for you, Charlotte. I'm really looking forward. We'll have you on again in the not too distant future. You can tell us about all the progress. Thank you for that. Nadine, you've mentioned that you've spent significant amount of time of late really looking at that workforce planning integration piece. Yeah. Are there two or three lessons you could share with the audience about the journey you've been through? Absolutely. I think I mean, just just some context, three years ago, we're just over we restructured as a business. So, historically, we were a regionalized business, so four regions. And when we restructured, we were sector focused. So if you could imagine, region had their own talent pool of people. And as we went into the new world, it just became one UK national talent pool. So, you know, the the workforce planning on that, you know, was a bit clunky and, you know, needed lots of attention. And I suppose over the years, you know, we've been, know, looking at processes, technology, and how we can make that more efficient. So, you know, we've got a very smart platform in place, which helps us workforce plan our people, not only from an availability point of view, but it looks at competencies and people's experience. So, you know, we're getting the best fit for projects, but it's pushing those demands so far out now that if we need to get our people to develop more to fit into those roles, we're developing them, retaining them. You know, I'd like to think they're recruiting less as well. But, yeah, it's just more strategic. I think we have more control of our people, where they're going, at what time, than just taking the the most available person to to go on a project. So, I mean, that's been a good journey. It's very efficient. I think, you know, we're starting to look further and further and further around the supply and demand, which is good. So yeah. And it and it's just making our business more efficient, really. Yeah. Fantastic. So, Charlotte, you have all of that to look forward to when it's through through the end of your project. But, Yves, what about yourself? What where would you say you are in your journey, and is there maybe one particular area of your TA operations where you think, actually, we could be a bit more strategic here? What would that be? Yes. So so it's interesting. I'm looking at the sort of five stages, and and I think we're we're definitely in the four and and looking to progress to a to a five. So we've we've been investing in a in a piece of software that's really going to support us in in regards to workforce planning. So the business has been historically very good at doing so, but the size and scale of of of the demands that is coming our way means that we we we do need a little bit of support from that perspective. We're also standing up a workforce strategic workforce planning team that's gonna really sort of work closely to the business to really sort of help and identify where are the gaps, who can we move internally, how can we strategically move people up within the organizations? And then from from then moving from a what are the empty seats at the end of this exercise to pass this on to the TA team to go externally and and and and and recruit for. So it's getting a lot more strategy into this, really a lot more clarity in regards to, you know, where where are definitely the gaps that we need to go and and identify externally. And and and and this is just about to move to that sort of next level from our perspective. So there is there is an there there there's a lot of very good work that's taking place. I think a lot of the businesses have been pushed in that that sort of quite advanced stage from a TA's maturities perspective. And, yeah, we're we're we're we're we're certainly getting there. So looking forward to the to the future on that. Amazing. Thank you all so much for sharing your thoughts on that. And, again, something that came through loud and clear there was the use of technology and ultimately making things more efficient, making things operate better, and ultimately giving you data driven insights and helping you plan more and more into the future. This wouldn't be a twenty twenty six webinar without mentioning AI, but don't worry, we're gonna save the AI use for another day. I'd like to take a slightly different lens to it, which is we've been hearing anecdotally from clients around the significant increase in applications and the use of AI or candidates use of AI in the application process. Clearly, we've seen some data today from the reports around the sourcing channels and the increase in volumes of applications. What are your thoughts around candidates use of AI in their job search? And how are you dealing with that as a dynamic in your teams in terms of how that translates to an increase in application volumes? Yves, let's start with you. Yeah. So we've definitely seen over the last twelve to eighteen months a significant increase in in in volume, and I think there are certain tools and platforms out there that that people will use that will automatically go and apply to multiple jobs or, you know, certainly, we know that people are utilizing certain AI platforms to tailor their CV to to job requirements. So it it it's definitely a a challenge. I think, you know, how how you can identify this and how you can really sort of use AI to help you and assess candidates is is really something that that we need to get better at. I think, you know, the the the the challenge has really been around the sort of volume and and and making sure that the people are generally have got that that experience that they're that they're stating on their CV. So it's it's very difficult to to stay on top of it. It's it's it's moving so so quickly, and and ensuring that you've got the right sort of customer and candidate experience is also very important, making sure that you've got the right sort of technology and you're still able to not sift, for example, through the use of technology is is really important. So certainly high level of of volume is is is a challenge for probably all of our teams here. Yeah. And you touched on the impact there. Right? So the impact is candidate experience, more volume of applications, more workload for recruiters. Nadine, what about your thoughts there, particularly around candidate experience? How do you maintain that candidate experience with all these dynamics happening in the background? Yeah. I mean, I I think I mean, we, as a business, we don't hire as many numbers as the other tier one contractors, you know, maybe two hundred for the year. So we can put a lot of time into the process, make it bespoke, hold candidate's hands, you know, and and offer a good experience. So that's kind of our USP, I suppose, if we had to differentiate amongst the other tier ones. But, yeah, that that engagement, that candidate experience I mean, just one of the other back to your original question around AI applications. I mean, what we're probably gonna aim to do for next year because we've we've seen lots of applications, I suppose, in the emerging talent space where, you know, if there's multiple applications, not necessarily relevant. But then you see some amazing applications, very well written applications. And, you know, when you do meet them, the the application doesn't sort of necessarily match the person. So I think yeah. I mean, some slip through the net, but definitely assessment days are the way forward, I think. And, you know, I I like to think construction. The construction industry is very much a people place. You know? There's there's good engagement amongst people. So I think assessment days, we personally don't do enough of them. So that's something that I'll be trying to promote moving forward. Amazing. Charlotte, have you what are your thoughts on candidate experience? And, again, part of this wider transformation, where does candidate experience sit for you in, in the priority list? So, like we're doing about two hundred and, I think, thirty hires. So what we're doing as part of our transformation is building, making sure we're building a team. I think, like Nadim said, our sector is based on relationships, and we need some very people focused. So we need to make sure we're mirroring that in our hiring process as well. I think there are certain things that you can automate, but there is set that that human touch, I think, is something that we we won't be able to get away from in our in our sector, definitely. So I think for me, when I've looked at the team, looked at the transformation, and it's making sure that we've got talent acquisition partners that that are really people focused, really about building those relationships and and making sure that we are given that best candidate experience throughout. So we're differentiating ourselves from the wider wider market, really. We are still, you know, fairly small business with twelve hundred people. So in the respect of two other individuals on the call, we can give more of that kind of human touch. So we we do wanna make sure that we that we continue to to do that really. Yeah. Of course. And and every every organization, whether it be in construction or any other industry, right, we're all we're all trying to curate our unique, yeah, yeah, unique experiences and the unique points in which, you know, why someone would consider working for you and your brand. So, yeah, I just continue to encourage you all to drive forward with those. And again, I'd love to leave some space for the questions from the audience. So, I'll leave you with one last question each, which is again, some of the things we've talked about today seem to be construction industry structural issues. And I know that you're all competitors, pseudo competitors, and that ultimately you're all sort of fishing in the same talent pools, but where do each of you see some genuine opportunity for construction sector collaboration where even amongst competitors, we could address some of these broader structural issues? What do you what do you think? Let's start with Eve. I think for me, we you're absolutely right. We need to do this as a as a as a collective, And and I always look back at the British Army, for example, and and and back in twenty fifteen, I think it was, they created a a campaign together that that provided awareness to to people in all the different roles available within within the sector and and take away this view that if I'm gonna join the army, I'm going to find myself, you know, holding a gun on the front line and really sort of providing that that that collective view that there are so many great opportunities and great careers to be had in in in in in our sector. So I think we need to, as a collective, create a campaign that that will provide that awareness to to a lot of people, be really transparent about the types of opportunities, keep on sort of communicating together, and and and really sort of challenging ourselves in in in in being able to look at people with different skills and and and different backgrounds. But I think each of us can do this, you know, in in in our own sort of siloed way. But if we really wanna have an impact, it has to be done as a a sector because the numbers that you flagged earlier, it it's it's all of our all of our numbers. It's not just individuals who are facing these. Yeah. And, Charlotte, what's your thoughts? What would you love to see the construction industry come together and do? I think we need to collaborate more from a talent perspective. I I a hundred percent agree with that, especially in that emerging talent space and how we are selling our opportunities within construction and also in that diversity space as well and how we're changing the perceptions of the sector. I think that's where we can really come together and and collaborate more on. I think we're we're almost in direct competition for for some of the the the talent in in construction. But I think from an emerging talent and diversity perspective, I think we can really come together in those areas and support one another in that drive to kind of almost change the sector and and change change that talent shortage piece. Nadim, any final thoughts? I mean, I I agree with with the rest actually and and collaboration. You know, I think if we work as a team, we'll get there quicker. But I I definitely think, you know, some intervention from the government to help with some of these modern apprenticeships and what that looks like. I know we've, you know, we've got the apprenticeship levy and everything else associated. I think it it's a bit slow. It's a bit complicated. I think kids don't necessarily understand it. I think there's a lot of red tape within companies and how they can get good talent quick quickly. And yeah. So all of those things, I mean, if we could fix them together, it solves the problem collectively. And yeah. I mean, if if if we work in our silos, we're gonna be doing this for the next ten years or twenty years. If we work together, at least we can half that time. So, I mean, there's some great companies that are out there like bodies where we can, you know, get together as a group and who'll help push this forward. But, yeah, I think, you know, the one thing that's come out of this is that everyone's open to collaboration, which is great. Yeah. I mean, that's it's been wonderful to see. And, you know, thank you so much for agreeing to take your personal time and share and help the audience and you know give your perspectives. It's been really interesting just hearing from you all. Can I ask Joanna, have there been any questions? I haven't seen the q and a. Apologies. But if there's, any questions from the audience, I'm sure our panel would love to love to hear them. We have three questions or a few questions in the q and a. And I wanna start with this one. Are you approaching employer brand differently to help navigate these challenges? Does anybody have a perspective they wanna share on employee brand particularly? I think I guess, challenges. For me, obviously, I'm looking at it with a fresh pair of eyes being being new to Tilbury Douglas. I think we need to look at I think post COVID has driven very different maybe has given people the space to reflect on what they want from their career and with AI coming in. So I think we do need to I think we do need to look at it differently and what what candidates really want from us and also look at it from a generational perspective. I think each generation wants something different from their businesses. So for me, it's it's getting across employee value proposition that's gonna, you know, resonate with an employer brand that's gonna resonate with with each generation. So we've got a really we've got a really diverse workforce because we know that majority of of construction is Gen X. That's a large proportion, and we need to solve that issue as well as the the gender imbalance as well. Yeah. And I think you've all touched on this already, right, which is, you know, the employer brand is the promise that you make to potential employees, but, ultimately, you have to create the environment that that matches that that employee brand. So how important do you think it is on the DEEM eve for employer brand, and is that is that a lever that organizations can pull on to to really maybe address some of the skill shortages or some of the other shortcomings that that they're dealing within construction? Absolutely. I think, you know, the the more you shout about your employer brand, probably the better. You know, we're all unique in our different ways. I mean, you know, we we talk about family business for us, and some some people prefer to be associated to a big family business rather than a a company with share prices, for example, because it's more personable or for whatever reason. So, yeah, I think we need you need to be very clear on your employer brand. And, you know, and and quite honest as well, I think, because if you get your employer brand wrong, people leave, really. So, yeah, that'd be my view. Eve, anything you wanna add? Yeah. No. Absolutely. Agree with Charlotte and team. I think it's really important to be quite genuine out there and and to make sure that you're you're you're honest and and that the values and and culture is reflected out there. Everybody is looking for for for for for something different, and and I think it's very important to have a a regular sort of message that goes out externally. And and you need to have your corporate voice, but you also need to have the support of of individuals within the business who who talk about real life stories. I think that's really, really important. It's people that actually promote what they are doing because, you know, we're we're all joining businesses and we say, oh, actually, you know, we're gonna be working x y z project. That's great. But, actually, what is the real life at Land Rover like? You know? What what am I going to do on a day to day basis? What what do people do? What what's my career opportunity? Where can I see myself? And and where can I see myself in in five, ten years time? And and is there somebody that's actually had that experience and had that journey that I can generally visualize as as as as, you know, in in in in people's feeds and so on? So I think it's really important to be quite quite honest and open in regards to the experiences and and and what our businesses do. Yeah. And I think employer brand is big for the external market and audience. But, again, without wanting to create another question here, when we talk to a lot of recruiters, they say they love the EVP because it helps them understand what the organisation is looking for. So it helps in the qualification and the role of matching the right people to the right job. So it's a coin with two sides, I guess, both for the external market and for your internal culture and your guidance and your guide rails for for how you want to operate. So thank you. Joanna, you said there were a couple more questions. Yeah. There's actually been an influx of questions in the past couple of minutes since we opened the q and a. So if we don't answer your questions, so sorry, we'll try and answer it offline as well. But, I think this one's interesting because we didn't quite touch on it. But, do you think the construction sector will shorten the gap with other sectors when it comes to offering hybrid or flexible working, especially with the younger generation prioritizing work life balance? Who wants to take that one? Yeah. I'll I'll give that a go. I think I mean, it's a yeah, I think it's a difficult one in construction. I mean, it's it's great to, you know, have that ability to work flexibly and agile. But, I mean, the nature of the work that we do, construction, you know, we're on-site. I'd say there's a huge proportion of people that are required to be on-site. I think, you know, over the years, we've tried to we worked with, you know, an external body to see if you can work flexibly on projects. And, yeah, we had a few projects that tried it out. It's possible. You know, in a lot of offices, we've worked flexibly. But, yeah, it it's a tough one to get that balance, I think, in construction. Other sectors, I think it's a lot easier, but construction purely because of the nature of the work that we do, It's really tough to get that balance. Eve, Charlotte, anything you wanna add on? Yeah. I I oh, go on. Go on, Charlotte. I'd agree. I think we are delivering a project. So I think for those, it's really hard to get that balance right for the project based people. I think I said earlier in the conversation, think at Tippie Douglas, we very much look at the role by role basis. We don't kind of have set you know, I've got a member in my team that's on condensed hours for days a week. So we will look at things like that, which which support which support that, and we will look at it on a role by role. We haven't kind of got a set. This is how we do things at Tilbury Douglas, and we're doing a three two model. It will be very much on a role by role basis, which kind of supports some of that. But, yeah, there is always the challenges. We are delivering a project on-site, and I think it is the site based roles that, at the moment, aren't aren't flexible, have the same level of flexibility with than some of the other roles across the business. But that does suit some individuals that like to go out to work, go to project, like to see what they're delivering. Some people, we need to understand that some people don't wanna work in a hybrid way, aren't productive in that way. I think sometimes it's a role by role individual by individual basis as well. But, yeah, it is it is a challenge our sector has like many other sectors that are, delivering something so, that they need to be there. So it may change as we deliver more off-site or however we bring our projects together as as construction changes. But, agree it's a really, really difficult and challenging thing with regards to when we're delivering projects on-site. And you've almost got almost a bit of a split workforce, and I think post COVID also was a bit of a challenge in in that respect as it drove a lot more flexibility within our sector, but then created this divide within our workforces. Interesting. Well, it'd be interesting to see how that plays out for you, Charlotte. Eve, any final thoughts? Yeah. No. I second what what Charlotte and Nadim have said. I think, you know, the we we are delivering projects ultimately. So, you know, it's it's very much site based roles. I think flexibility comes in in different ways. So it's it's understanding what what is the level of flexibility that's required. I think as we're moving towards, you know, quite a lot of the the the industry is is is moving towards off-site manufacturing, for example, that that could provide some opportunities in regards to flexibility. But but currently, you know, we are on on very large projects that that needs sort of people delivering those. And and I do feel that, you know, there is there is there's a real sort of strong sense of of collaborations when people get together and and and are there in person. So that that that's a real positive. But I do think that over time, things might might evolve with some of the technology and advancement, but but currently, are facing the reality that we are delivering the projects site. Yeah. Well, again, let's wrap there. It's been a fantastic discussion. Firstly, Charlotte, Nadim, Eve, thank you. Really appreciate your time today. Really appreciate you taking the time and, to be authentic and to share some of your your lessons and what what's happening in your world. Just as a closing note from me, obviously, we will be sharing the recording and a copy of the report itself. So watch your inboxes for that. And again, one of the things that we wanted to do for the market is, again, particularly around the friction with mobile applications and drop off rates, If any, anyone is interested in a, a career site audit, it's one of the things that we're offering as part of the, exercise for construction companies in particular. So, please feel free to take a snapshot of the QR code or to get in touch and we'd be happy to do that for you. There'll also be a follow on in person event in the coming months. So, Charlotte, Nadim, Eve, I hope to see you there as well. Maybe on a in person fireside chat with some more of your construction peers. But, yeah, thank you very much. Really, really, really enjoyed the conversation, and I hope you all have taken something from it today as well. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Goodbye.